Dr. Renee Wellenstein is a double board-certified Ob/Gyn with over 20 years of experience.
When she found herself struggling with deep burnout and found no solutions in traditional treatment, she began searching for safe, reliable, and proven natural treatments. Now Dr. Renee empowers women to take control of their health, jumpstart energy, improve confidence, and re-ignite their libido using natural techniques that work. Listen in or read the transcript as we discuss her process as well as:
- Why burnout and low libido it isn’t always about hormones
- The role of stress, toxins, insulin, glucose, & estrogen dominance
- Strategic & limited supplement suggestions
- Her “Non-Negotiable” self-care habits
Mentioned in this podcast:
- 100 Libido Boosting foods list
- Find “Dr. Renee Wellenstein” across all social media platforms
- Podcast Love the Leap with Dr. Renee
- Electrolytes in morning water
- Sparkle cleanse
Today, I am so happy to welcome Dr. Renee Wellenstein to the PCOS Diva podcast. She is a double board certified doctor who’s been working with women for over 20 years and due to her own personal health challenges, she stepped outside the box of conventional medicine to take a radically different approach, to heal herself from the deep depths of burnout. And now, Dr. Renee empowers women to take control of their health, jumpstart their energy, improve their confidence, and re-ignite their libido. And I’m so glad that you’re here today, Dr. Renee, because I am definitely experiencing some burnout. We’re recording this in mid to end of June. And as a lot of mothers, this time of year is just crazy with under school stuff and I have family birthdays and Father’s Day, and I am feeling really depleted and burnt out. So I’m excited to hear some of your tips and I’m just really glad that you’re here.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Well, thank you for having me. I’m excited to be here.
And you are described yourself as a libidologist, which I love that term. And I’d love for you to just share a little bit more about the work that you do around helping women that are in sort of burnout and are feeling depleted and especially their libidos feeling depleted.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah. Well, libidology, that’s a completely made up word and it’s my title, libidoligist because I’m always, for the past 20 years, I’ve been taking care of women. I’ve been studying libido and low libido. Because as an OB GYN, it was something women would come to me with a complaint of ranging in age from twenties, all the way up to fifties. And what was interesting is back in the day of just practicing conventional OB GYN, there wasn’t really anything FDA approved for women with low libido. And that’s how I was trained. I was changed to, okay, woman comes in with libido, what drug can I give her to quote unquote, fix it? And back in the day there was this hormone replacement that was including an oral, not only an oral estrogen, which really can harm your liver, but oral testosterone, which, oh my goodness. I can’t believe that I used to prescribe that. But that was all I had in my toolbox. And quite frankly, back then, I would observe these women and it wasn’t one demographic of women. It was twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, all different shapes and sizes and medical conditions.
And I was whoa, what is going on here? But we are taught to think it’s testosterone, because that is what drives a man’s sexual desire. So of course we think, okay men, women, how different are we? It must be testosterone. And what I’ve come to realize over these 20 years in studying libido, it is not only testosterone. So back then I used what I could use. And I honestly avoided the topic. So if you’re going to your doctor with low libido and they’re kind of shrugging their shoulders and saying, I don’t know what to do, they’re probably telling the truth because there’s not a whole lot out there. I think there may be a new drug out there right now for low libido in women.
But what I have found in studying women is, it’s complex. We are complex we, our hormones are complex and we’re so much more than estrogen and progesterone and the little bit of testosterone we make. So when I went into functional medicine, which is my journey to functional medicine was based on my inability to get correctly diagnosis with adrenal dysfunction, also known as really significant burnout, after a back injury. And when I found functional medicine, I couldn’t believe that I had never heard of this type of medicine after practicing for over 15 years in the conventional world. And I had gotten so low down deep, I was rock bottom essentially with my own physical and mental health, to the point where I actually considered no longer living because of my symptoms and no one could really figure out what was going on. And I had been misdiagnosed with depression and failed two different antidepressants.
And that’s when I knew that when I found functional medicine and there was a different way of getting healthy and naturally that basically anyone could do, I knew I had to get further training on this and actually help women get healthy this way. So having gone now to the functional medicine side, I look at the woman as the complete picture of everything that’s going on and we don’t just cherry pick libido, must be testosterone, give her testosterone, kind of thing. And so what I found with past, what, seven plus years in functional medicine is that, there’s a lot that goes into libido in women. And again, it’s not just necessarily always hormonal, but the interesting thing is it may have a hormonal component, but there are generally more than one component to that low libido.
It’s interesting that you talk about adding testosterone for women with libido problems, that that was kind of the way that it was done, but as the women that are listening to this podcast, they’re already dealing with elevated levels of testosterone. And I can’t imagine what that would do probably adding more fuel to the fire for women with PCOS. How would you approach helping women with PCOS with their burnout and low libido? I think it’s great to kind of give women sort of a viewpoint of how a functional practitioner would go about sort of assessing.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Absolutely. Yeah. We have many hormones that play into the libido aside from, again, testosterone. It’s estrogen, progesterone, obviously with PCOS, there’s an imbalance there, which is clear that when we are more it’s generally a picture of estrogen dominance versus a lower progesterone. And a lot of women when we’re painting that picture of estrogen dominance, we’re not really feeling comfortable in our skin. We’re feeling more irritable or moody, of course, so that plays a huge part. And then we also have the insulin issue and glucose issue. And once I find that women that have PCOS … I used to address it with testosterone. I no longer really go right to testosterone, quite frankly.
I look at the female hormones first and foremost, as well as other hormones like cortisol, which is our stress hormone, like insulin. Because even aside from PCOS, there are many women out there that have insulin resistance and simple dietary measures, and again, I always say simple. They’re simple, but they’re not easy. They are lifestyle changes to try to kick those convenient foods out of your life as much as possible, the added sugars, becoming aware of what you’re actually putting into your body. And again, when you are suffering from burnout, and I can speak from this perspective because that was me as well. I was exhausted. Like you, Amy, we’re trying to do it all. We’re moms, we’re juggling currently the virtual schooling actually, it’s almost done, thank goodness. But potentially significant others or spouses that work outside the home.
We’re trying to balance a job and groceries and meals and all the things at the expense of our own self -care. And I’ve found, over the past year, especially with women, that our self-care has really taken a back seat to everybody’s else’s care. And in a time of the past year, that life, I thought was going to get a little bit slower because we took out a lot of the unnecessary activity like going to the grocery store seven times a week and running to the mall to do shopping that we probably don’t even need to do. We’re more at home, but what I found is that women actually started crowding their lives with other things. And that usually involve taking care of others, including the children. And I’ve never seen it so low that women really have lost themselves and taking care of themselves.
And they’re waking up after this year long pandemic, not even being able to wake up in the morning. They’re exhausted, they’re fatigued throughout the day, which we know what that does that leads to us choosing those foods that are not so healthy because they’re convenient. They’re easy. Back when I was suffering from burnout, and I have periodically over the past seven years since my own diagnosis, felt when I was going back down again, because I started doing that same thing of, oh my goodness, I’m so tired. I don’t even feel like making a salad. I’d rather just go open the cabinet and grab the chips. And that’s very real. And those chips are not only convenient food to sort of fill your belly with something, it’s not necessarily quality food, but it actually, essentially, is giving you sometimes the salts that you’re craving and the sugar for a little bit of energy that is going to get you through the next hour or two until you get your next craving for something sugary. Or living on coffee all day to get through the day.
And so, when I’m looking at a woman with low libido, PCOS, burnout we really have to sort of come back to the awareness key of really where we lost ourselves. What is stressing us out? Because I see a lot of women out there running around, I’m stressed, I’m stressed. About what? What is it and what can we start saying no to, what can we start asking for help to do, doing. At the end of the day, we don’t get a trophy for being super mom or super woman. In our minds we might, but everyone else around us is oh, good job. She can handle it all, well, let’s just keep her handling everything and not helping and we’re falling into bed every night. And obviously we know what that does to our libido or sexual desire because we’re exhausted. We barely have energy to put one foot in front of the other, let alone be intimate.
And arousal for women does take a little more energy. We would definitely, there is this teeter-totter with oxytocin, which is our cuddle hormone or love hormone. And when our cortisol is high, which is our stress hormone, our oxytocin is low. So we can’t be in our heads and stressed about what we’re doing next, and who’s going to, what we’re making for dinner and what we need to get from the grocery store and what we have to do for work and thinking about being intimate. It just doesn’t go together. And we really by asking for that help, by asking for, whether it be the kids to help her out around the house or our husbands or significant others. Just taking that extra little thing off of our plates will actually help potentially alleviate some of the stress in your day-to-day life. So just again, asking for help, not over-scheduling yourself, setting boundaries, because once again, when we took out that self-care and all of the extra stuff over the past year, again, we filled it in with a lot of things that are not serving us.
I love how you illustrate that you are the magic pill. That’s what I love to say because there really is no pharmaceutical pill to increase your libido, that you have to make these changes yourself of no over-scheduling. I have two non-negotiables that really helped me and I when I was feeling so depleted last night, I got myself to bed at 8:15. I know that sounds ridiculously early, but for me, sleep is what replenishes me. So I was up at 5:30 and then I went to my workout, and I do a workout at the gym three days a week. And that really helps to ground me and it gives me the energy that I need to get through my week. And my kids and my husband know that mom goes to bed early and she’s not going to miss those three workouts. And it really is about setting those boundaries and figuring out what it is that replenishes you. I’d love to know for you, Dr. Renee, what’s your non-negotiable? What replenishes you?
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
I’m the same way, my morning workout. I honestly, I get up before the kids during the school year. And again, that was very variable this past year, as far as where they’re going to go is for home or school. And I really need a solid, an hour, at least just to sort of wake up myself, hopefully get my workout in. And I’m just like you, that really gives me my time for waking up, setting my intentions for the day, getting my body moving, getting my water and my hydration up from being dehydrated all night.
And then I’m a much better mom, much better mindset to deal with potentially fighting teenagers coming down the stairs. Oh my gosh, we have this test and forgot about it. So I found there was a definite discord between how I react to situations in the house if I do not get a little bit of movement in my body and a little bit of me time before I have to take on the challenge of momming for the day. So I’m just like you, I definitely prioritize moving my body some way and a little bit of quiet time, alone time, before the world wakes up.
Yeah. I think that alone time is really important, especially if you’re like me and you’re tend to be a little introverted and introverted, meaning you derive your energy from that alone time. And sometimes you have to just unplug from the chaos of it all at home, I think. And the other thing that you mentioned was hydration. And I was just going to share that I have found adding electrolytes to my water in the morning has really improved my energy levels through the day. And that’s something that is in my burnout toolbox as well.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah. I have an easy fix for your audience if they don’t want to invest in electrolytes, because I’m used to also working with women that invest in functional medicine care. We try to cut costs in other places and one easy thing that they can do today is just add a little pinch of sea salt to your morning water. That will definitely help replete some electrolytes. Again, it’s not as great as some of the ones that are out there now, but it definitely will give you a little bit of a boost in the morning and allow your body to hold onto some of that water. Because a lot of women that are burned out are deplete in electrolytes. So that will definitely allow them. And again, just a pinch, pinch goes a long way. You don’t want it to the point where it tastes salty, because then you might throw up. So just a little pinch of salt and you can actually repeat that throughout the day. I also love a little pinch of salt, if you’re a coffee drinker, in my coffee. Yeah. It’s wonderful.
So I wanted to just dig a little deeper on that cortisol, oxytocin connection. Because I do think that that is a major issue for women with PCOS. Studies have shown that we have more elevated cortisol than our non-PCOS counterparts. And I have found working with women that they often have that inverse cortisol curve that you can find on that four point saliva test, maybe you could talk about that. But they have a really hard time getting up in the morning because their cortisol is low, but then it becomes elevated throughout the day when it should be decreasing. And then you’re tired but wired.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
That was me, exactly. I was thinking about this when we were talking about our morning routines. You and I were at a different part of our life may have weathered burnout, which I know I did it personally. And I think both as moms, we kind of go up and down and we rescue ourselves before we get to those deep depths of burnout, that we can’t get out of bed. But having that morning routine, it is something that you definitely work towards because as a mom who, and again, I was one of those that had the low morning cortisol. I couldn’t get out of bed. And I was also that one, if I didn’t go to bed by 10:00 PM, I was wired and I could stay up and party till the cows come home at 1:00 in the morning and that wasn’t serving my body.
And my favorite thing to do for women like that is yes, we have to prioritize sleep. So making your bedtime a non-negotiable, and I know it’s summer, everyone wants to stay up late, but getting to bed by 9:00 PM. The more most restorative sleep for those with burnout is between 7:00 and 9:00 AM. And I know that sounds really late, but again, we’re in the summer hours. Kids aren’t getting up for school. Perhaps maybe a couple of days out of the week, you can sleep beyond 7:00 AM and have more grace on yourself to not have to get up and do it all right at 5:00 AM. And you’ll find you start prioritizing sleep, again, start working on that nutrition component, which, again, is really hard when you’re tired. So this is when a lot of times we’ll use strategic supplementation.
I always say supplements can act like medications and put a bandaid on something. But when I use supplements, I use them to basically help your body. In this instance, giving a woman a little bit more energy, so she can maybe get up 15 minutes earlier than usual without feeling as exhausted and have a little more pep in her step throughout the day. So my favorite supplements to start, pretty much all women, are a B complex. That’s a really nice array of all of the B vitamins. B vitamins actually get depleted with stress, so we’re just actually giving our body back what we’re missing. And before I talk about supplements, I’m a huge lover of whole food nutrition. But again, we’re talking about women that have burnout and that may not be making the healthiest food choices to begin with. So if we’re eating a diet higher in processed packaged foods with lots of added sugars and refined foods, they actually have a lot of the nutrients taken out of them.
So I actually always start my clients on a B complex. Magnesium is wonderful as a natural muscle relaxant and anti-inflammatory, just makes you feel calmer. And then, actually I have two other favorite ones. Number three is L-theanine, which is an amino acid from green tea that helps calm you without making you feel sedated. And I always say it’s like the natural Xanax. And the reason I love it for burnout is, generally speaking, we’re dealing with women who are really stressed about something. So taking a nice dose of that in the morning will help them actually feel less stressed, more calm, and more focused to get through their day of knowing what exactly they have to mark off their to do list. And the fourth for most women, especially those that are wired-tired, is something called an adrenal gland adaptogen.
Now these are supplements that are actually the herbs that will adapt your cortisol for where it has to be. So for instance, in the morning, if your cortisol is low, it will boost up your cortisol. And in the evening hours, it will lower your cortisol if your cortisol is high. And my favorite of those is something called ashwagandha. And that actually also helps with libido because a lot of times stress impacts your libido. So, for the evening time, cortisol, I generally love phosphatidylserine, which will lower your nighttime, my current sleep stack. Because again, I’m like you, I just came out of this really stressful time. I take inositol, which I know is great for PCOS, but it’s also great for restful sleep, to take a little melatonin and my phosphatidylserine as well.
Because I find that once we sort of slow women down a little bit and get back into their bodies to see exactly how are you feeling. That’s part of the awareness key. We’ve been running around for a year saying, oh my gosh, we don’t know what’s going on, we’re so stressed. Start slowing and just, how does your body feel and how do you want it to feel? And … so when you start kind of going back down that pathway again, after you start feeling a little bit better, you will know what’s coming and what you have to do to get back to your starting place.
Yeah, that’s great advice. I just wanted to also draw attention to the fact that so many women with PCOS are on the birth control pill and Metformin, which both deplete nutrients B12, which can really cause energy issues. And then we also often tend to be really low in vitamin D, which I think a lot of women find supplementing with vitamin D really helps with that energy level. And then I just wanted to ask you about the Ayurvedic herb, it’s kind of like ashwagandha, but it’s more prescribed, I guess, for females. Shatavari. I know that has something that has helped me with libido and just curious if that’s something that you’ve used with your patients?
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
I have not, but that’s great. What’s so interesting about what I do now versus where I used to be like as an OB GYN is, I’m always learning. So you just taught me something. Well, maybe I’ll look into that because what I find, so I have not used that with my clients, but what I have found is that everyone’s different. This practice is personalized medicine, individualized care, no two regimens fit every woman. So what fits one will not fit another.
And it’s really great to just have those resources in my back pocket say, oh yeah, well, that’s not helping, let’s try this. Because at the end of the day, when, again, we’re talking about burnout, especially, we have to empower women to feel a little bit more energized, a little bit better to take that next step. To eat a little bit better, to prioritize sleep, to prioritize a little bit of movement in their body, because if we’re starting at ground zero of not having energy get out of the bed in the morning. And we’re talking to them about eating real food and making meals. They’re just going to shut down and not want to do anything. So, thank you. No, I have not used that.
Something that really puzzles me and I have to go for my annual OB GYN and I just go for that conventional, she’s not a functional medicine doctor. She’s very nice and I get my annual pap. But when she asks how things are going, I’ve noticed that she never … libido is not one of the questions on the survey. And why is it that, that is kind of seems a little bit of a taboo subject when you go to your conventional doctor?
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah. I can speak from experience from this because it was me for 15 years. I didn’t really know how to treat it. Once again, if we don’t have something really good in a medication form, we don’t know what to do with it. When it comes to libido, it’s more about really digging deep of, as a doc, I talk about other things besides hormones. I talk about your mindset. I talk about your relationship. Hello, those two are really key to a good libido. And they may not be the whole picture, again, we may have to add on hormones and adrenals and all that. But docs back when I was in OB GYN, and even currently even probably more so now, they just don’t have the time to counsel you about what are the necessary lifestyle measures that you have to take, or even before that, why?
Let’s delve into some of the factors that are going on with Amy. How’s your relationship? How are you feeling about yourself? How are you feeling in your body? A lot of women over the past year have gained weight and they’re feeling less comfortable in their skin. And again, we treated the past year, it was very stressful for a lot of people. We turned to more comfort foods, foods that we don’t normally eat. We’re home a lot more, that uncertainty of the future. And I think a lot of people, even when they were eating healthier prior to the pandemic, started eating more foods that they don’t normally eat and exercising less because gyms closed. Oh my gosh, what do I do now? Not everyone has a home gym. So I think that it’s a double-edged sword. Number one, they don’t know really what to do with it.
And number two, they really don’t have time. They have that five minutes with you. Just telling you right now, Amy, from that world, they’re just hoping you come in and say, everything’s fine. And when you mentioned that libido, you’re like, oh no, she said that L word. Because they don’t know, number one, that signals that you’re going to want to talk about it more. And they just don’t have time to do the counseling. And again, they don’t really have a great magic pill. And maybe if they do have a new FDA approved pill, number one, that’s all they have. And when you fail that, then they don’t know what to do. It’s essentially you’re just going to have to live with it. I don’t know how many women I have had come to me in my messages and such and said my GYN says, see a sex therapist, or my GYN says, you’re just going to have to live with it.
Or, this is the best one. My GYN says it’s normal. What? And that’s why I’m on my soapbox preaching about this right now, because we just aren’t talking about it. And when we do, we’re told it’s normal. So women continue to go back to not talking about it because they’re like, oh, well I’m 48. If you told me that low libidos with the rest of my life, I’d be like, oh my gosh, no way. I can’t, how do I have connection with my spouse? It’s common as we get older or after having children. But because of all of the other factors that play into a low libido. The whole, I’ve been married 17 years, how’s my relationship? I’m 48, how are my female hormones? How is my insulin? How are my adrenals and burnout factor?
Other thing we didn’t talk about are toxins. I have, at the age of 48, had a huge toxic load over my lifetime. Until my eyes opened up about functional medicine seven, eight years ago, I was living a very toxic life. So cumulatively after all of those years, I have a lot of chronic daily detoxing to do to get rid of, and not only that introducing cleaner personal care products and food and all of that so I don’t worsen in my hormonal imbalance at the age of 48. So I do think … don’t, number one, try not to get frustrated with your gynecologist. She’s doing, or he’s doing, their best with the information that they have.
And a lot of people are well, why don’t they just do the research? They are exhausted and they don’t have time. What they’re researching is the next best drug to help you with your next symptom that you come in with and all of the side effects. My medical school education was primarily pharmacology medications, what medication do you use for what? So healthcare is really just a protocol. It’s an algorithm. You have this symptom, you get this drug. You have this diagnosis, you get this drug. And when you can’t really be fit into a box, it’s really hard to get you well.
That’s such a great point. I love that you really took on your own health and in this journey now you’re helping other women. And I find that that women that had thought out aside of the conventional box, I’m having a hard time framing my thought here. But that, that’s what it takes to get well. And I feel like it’s the women that are our age, I’m going to be 50. We kind of have taken what is available as the answer. We’ve dug and now we’re charting a new course for the younger generations. Our daughters. I just feel so hopeful for her, my daughter is going to be 13 this year. And I think that both of us have charted a new path for our daughters in terms of how they’re going to manage their hormone health down the road.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
I absolutely agree. Actually, my daughter’s going to be 14. I have twins, a boy and a girl. And when she didn’t really hit puberty or breast development at the age of even 13, I was celebrating because I saw so many girls as, even a GYN, really before I knew about functional medicine, coming in with really early puberty. Really early seven, eight. And I started asking questions, what is going on out there? These girls are not taking any hormones, what is in our food or what is in the personal care products? And obviously obesity was playing a part as well, but what was it? And that’s when I started asking questions, even before I embarked in functional medicine, it’s wow, two things I’ve seen abrupt rise in infertility and premature puberty. And I just had to start scratching my head, whoa, what is going on here with our food? What is out there?
At that point, I wasn’t asking the strategic questions that we’re asking now of what’s in our food and what’s in what we’re putting on our bodies? And like you said, I am so much more knowledgeable now to the point where my daughter is educated on healthier foods and in personal care products and what not to put on her body, ideally, she’s a kid too. And so it’s not always perfect, but I do celebrate every day that we just embarked on puberty at almost the age of 14. So that was good because I kept holding my breath going, oh gosh, how, even that five years prior to me sort of coming into this world, I don’t want to say what harm, I don’t want to scare anyone out there. But ignorance is not always bliss. You really, the education is out there and by my taking control of my own health and educating myself I could just pass it down to generations to come including her and my son and my husband, of course.
Yeah. And I love that you brought up detoxification because I think you’re absolutely right. I do a liver cleanse several times a year. It’s called my Sparkle cleanse and I definitely after, and I call it Sparkled because I feel lighter and brighter and have a joie de vivre. And I do think that those toxins are kind of clouding our joy of life and that plays right into libido.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah. I mean so libido is just so multifactorial. Again, mindset, relationship, stress, nutrition and I know you probably, you talk about this a lot in regards to PCOS as well. And that it affects every component of our life, what we’re putting in our body and our mood issues. And a lot of that is coming during perimenopause and all our au natural hormonal fluctuations that are going on are bringing new about a lot of mood changes that are hard to control and definitely impact a libido. So when we’re looking at the libido, we just have to really pull back and look at the big picture of exactly what’s going on in our lives.
And I want you to tell us more about the resources that you have, because I know that you have some great free guides on your site. You have a podcast. If this is a topic that listeners want to dive in deeper, you’re definitely a great resource.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah, I’m all over. Again, I want to talk about this because there may be someone listening to this that gets this aha moment from something we just talked about. And it’s free, it’s a free resource. And she got that aha, maybe it’s not just one. Maybe it’s three things. And she’s like, that, that, and that I’m going to work on that. And while not overnight, but hopefully her libido is going to improve. So I make it my mission to essentially be all over social media. So I’m Dr. Renee Wellenstein across all platforms, including TikTok. Because yeah, if I can get a 15 Second video out there and change a woman’s life, I’m going to do it. And so it’s really actually allowed me to hone in on my skills of trying to get a message across succinctly in 15 seconds, which I’m a talker.
And I’m a lifelong learner and a teacher. So I’m always studying the libido and my clients and what’s going on with them and what’s helping them. So I do have a YouTube as well, Dr. Renee Wellenstein, and a podcast Love the Leap with Dr. Renee, which is more of a holistic health podcasts. But I had to say, when we look again, even libido, it’s all of the things pretty much that I cover on the podcast, again, support a better libido and gosh, where else am I? And then I have a free resource, has 100 libido boosting foods, which add a little bonus in there with some herbs that are going to actually help improve your libido as well. So we can give your listeners that link to get it for themselves.
That sounds great. And we’ll definitely put that in the show notes. So you can come to PCOSdiva.com and find this interview with Dr. Renee and get those great freebies. And I’m looking forward to listening to your podcast too, because I love learning about holistic health and I have really enjoyed our conversation today.
Dr. Renee Wellenstein:
Yeah. You as well. And Amy, if you have time, come on my podcast.
I would love that. Yeah. Well, I want to thank everybody for taking the time out of your day to listen. And I look forward to being with you again very soon. Bye bye.