The Most Important Habit for Thriving with PCOS [Podcast] - PCOS Diva
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The Most Important Habit for Thriving with PCOS [Podcast]

PCOS Podcast 42 Spadaro

Honoring yourself is not about why and how to pamper yourself, and it’s not about turning your back on those who need you. The issues surrounding giving and receiving are much deeper. When you honor yourself you are respecting, appreciating, and giving birth to your best self, so that you can give creatively and abundantly in ways that honor others.” –Patricia Spadaro

Self-care is possibly the most important part of thriving with PCOS.  Without it, all the diet and lifestyle changes are diminished.  It also may be the Honor_Yourself_Inner_Art_Giving_and_Receivinghardest part for many women (like me). Ask yourself:

  • Am I “allergic” to saying no?
  • Do I confuse constantly being busy with being strong?
  • Is constant giving the source of my chronic stress?
  • Where am I on my to-do list?
  • Do I feel guilty when taking time for myself?
  • Is sacrificing an excuse to avoid rejection or confrontation?

Patricia Spadaro says it is time to open your heart and say, “I deserve to bring forth my gifts.” In this podcast we discuss how to establish the healthy habit of honoring yourself. It is a habit that will improve your life; I promise.

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A full transcript follows.

Patricia-Spadaro-color-pic-cymkPatricia Spadaro is the award-winning author of the book Honor Yourself: The Inner Art of Giving and Receiving. Her books have been translated into more than 20 languages worldwide. Patricia is dedicated to inspiring and empowering others to live more deeply, fully, and authentically with wisdom from around the world. To learn more about Patricia and her work, she invites you to visit her at  and



Full Transcript:

Amy Medling: Hello, and welcome to another edition of the PCOS Diva Podcast. This is Amy Medling. I’m a certified health coach and I’m the founder of PCOS Diva, and I am your host today.


Today we have a really important topic for women with PCOS in the healing process. We’re going to be talking about how to be a Diva. Let me just sort of clarify that. I think if you’ve been following PCOS Diva and you know my story, and how important it was for me to really start taking extreme self-care, and honoring myself in order to give myself what I needed to heal.


We’re going to be talking about honoring yourself today, with author Patricia Spadaro. She wrote a really lovely book called Honor Yourself: The Inner Art of Giving and Receiving. I just wanted to welcome Patricia to our podcast.


Patricia Spadaro: Hi Amy, it’s so nice to be here. Thank you so much.


Amy Medling: Before we get into honoring yourself, I just want to give our listeners a brief bio so they know a little bit about you. You are an award-winning author of the book Honor Yourself: The Inner Art of Giving and Receiving. Your books have been translated into more than 20 languages worldwide. You are dedicated to inspiring and empowering others to live more deeply, fully, and authentically with wisdom from around the world. You are available at, and we’ll talk more about how to reach out to you at the end of our podcast.


I’m just really thrilled that you took up my invitation to come on and share your work with us. I was actually given your book by a friend of mine, and I thought that it was just so perfect for PCOS Divas to hear this message of honoring yourself. Before we get into asking you some questions, I just wanted to clarify what the term “honor yourself” means. I’m just going to read a quick little excerpt from the back of your book that just sums it up beautifully.


Honoring yourself is not about why and how to pamper yourself, and it’s not about turning your back on those who need you. The issues surrounding giving and receiving are much deeper. When you honor yourself you are respecting, appreciating, and giving birth to your best self, so that you can give creatively and abundantly in ways that honors others.”


That is just so eloquently stated.


Patricia Spadaro: Thank you so much. The word honor, when we go back to the root of the word, it’s really very informative. It means to respect, to esteem, to ennoble, to dignify, I just love those words. How often do we actually apply them to ourselves? Appreciating, dignifying, ennobling ourselves. I think that you’re right on the mark when you say that’s exactly what a Diva should do.


Amy Medling: I remember when I was really struggling with symptoms of PCOS, and it was when I had a one-year-old and a three-year-old, and a husband with a demanding job. I was giving, giving, giving so much of myself that I wasn’t taking time to receive, and it was just so draining. I think that it really played a part in my health issues, in my PCOS exacerbating itself. Once I started to really take time for extreme self-care, and making sure I got what I needed, I actually became a better mom and wife and friend, and as you say in that brief passage that I read, that I really gave birth to my best self. So important.


Patricia Spadaro: Right, absolutely. We talk about giving all the time, but I love the quote from Walt Whitman when he says, “When I give, I give myself.” If our self is so diminished, what are we really giving to others? I like to turn it round, when you think about “How can I say no, I need to say no,” but really it’s about, “How can I say yes to myself?” That’s a much more empowering way to think about the necessary habit of drawing boundaries, for instance.


Amy Medling: Yeah, I love that. I often work with clients on, I call it “flexing your ‘no’ muscle.” In trying to reframe it, and saying no to others, and other things in order to say yes to you.


Patricia Spadaro: Right, exactly.


Amy Medling: Why do you think that women, and I find that women with PCOS, have a particularly hard time saying no. Especially those who are really struggling. Saying no. Why do think that we have a hard time drawing boundaries and saying no? I know you use the term “allergic” to saying no, which I love.


Patricia Spadaro: Yeah, exactly. It’s almost like an allergy. Or an addiction, we can’t stop it. We feel like we have no control when in fact we do. I think really at the core of it is that we’ve grown up with these myths about giving and receiving that keep us from being able to master this balancing act, and it is a balancing act. The word “myth,” it’s very tricky because a myth is a half-truth. There’s a seed of truth in it, but it’s not the whole truth, and that’s what throws us off-track.


For instance, one of these myths that we’ve heard so many times before is, “It’s better to give than to receive.” On the face of it that’s true, but is it always true that giving is better than receiving? Is it true if you’re harming yourself, or if you’re compromising your ability to give back to others? At the bottom line of it, in order to give our best to those we love, we need to balance the giving and receiving.


I tell the story in my book, and every time I think about it, it still sends chills through me. There was a woman I knew once who was recovering from a surgery, and I would see her periodically at business meetings, and I knew she’d gone through this, and I asked her how she was doing. She said, “I’m good, but I’m busy again.” Then she said something that was really chilling. She said, “If I don’t get time off again soon I may just have to schedule another visit to the hospital.” When she said that my heart really literally skipped a beat, because I thought, “Wow, did she realize that she might very well fulfill her own prophecy if she doesn’t learn the lesson her body was trying to teach her the first time?”


Even Mother Theresa, who was known for her unconditional generosity, spoke about the need to be alone and to recharge. That’s just something we need to learn and practice, because we haven’t been taught it. That’s really why I wrote my book, to help people think in new ways about what I think’s the most essential question we can ever ask ourselves, which is, “What can I do to honor myself so that I can unleash the full power of my creative spirit, and give my greatest gift to my loved ones, my community, and the world?”


Amy Medling: I think that’s what makes you so self-fulfilled, and I say this all the time, that women who are really struggling with their PCOS are often suppressing their creativity. I think it’s hard to get in touch with that creativity if you don’t give yourself that room and space to do so.


Patricia Spadaro: Absolutely, that’s one of the first, most important things, is to do that. There’s a good reason why they say, when you get on an airplane, in an emergency, what do you do? You put your own oxygen mask on first. It sounds like a platitude, but it’s absolutely true.


Amy Medling: For listeners who recognize that they indeed have that allergy to saying no, do you have some suggestions and steps? What can they do today to help them flex that “no” muscle?


Patricia Spadaro: I think one of the things they have to do, that I’ve found helpful anyway, is to tune into the warning signs that stress is starting to take over. Really, all the sages of the world’s cultures have held this as the highest maxim. “Know yourself.” “Know thyself.” The first step to change, as you know, is always awareness. Getting into a habit, figuring out how to know yourself, how to practice listening to yourself, and taking the time to insert a pause, and to stop, to figure out what’s happening inside of you. Because your body and your emotions are going to give you signals all the time. The problem is, we’d often ignore them. We shove them back, we pretend that we’re not hearing them, because we’re so busy we have too many things to do. It’s something I have to practice all the time and I haven’t even mastered all the way, it’s just a continual process.


Recently I installed an app on my computer where a chime, a beautiful chime, rings every so many minutes. It’s like a mindfulness bell, and it really helps me, in the middle of whatever I’m doing. Even if I can’t stop fully, at least I say, “Oh yes, I need to go back to myself, listen to myself, what’s happening.”


One of these signs … You can also go through, I have in my book this list of signals that you can tune into, but one of them is that you are constantly busy and always on the move, and you never have a moment of stillness. If you want to take one you don’t feel good about it, you feel guilty. That’s because we tend to think, this is a myth, another one of these myths, that we tend to think that, by keeping busy all the time, it means we’re strong. In fact, when we’re constantly busy without recharging, we’re burning through our energy and our resources. If we feel that we’re flagging, and our energy’s lowering, what do we do? We drink more coffee, more energy drinks, we try and pump ourselves up, but those kind of things just deplete us even more. In that sense, being constantly busy is the opposite of being strong.


What really creates the strength is the stillness, and taking those moments of pause and stillness to create the strength that you need, and not feeling guilty about it.


Amy Medling: That’s the key. It’s taken me a long time to realize my triggers and bodily cues, or emotional cues, but I know I can get really irritable and grouchy. It was probably my husband that really called attention to that. “Gee, maybe you need to go to the gym, or maybe you need to go take a bath, or take a nap, or do something for you.” Now I’m able to sort of cut it off at the pass a little bit better, but you’re right, awareness is the first step, for sure, and to be able to “know thyself.” A lot of women with PCOS, we have mood disorders, and I think moodiness and hormones certainly come into play. Women with PCOS are more susceptible to stress, we have higher cortisol levels, so we have to pay particular attention to stress.


I loved in your book, I think I put a note here, it was on page 33, you talk about chronic stress, and you said that it’s really a symptom of imbalance in the flow of giving and receiving, and has a direct link to our health. Maybe you could just talk a little bit more about the balance of giving and receiving, and how do you know if you are in balance?


Patricia Spadaro: Right, exactly. Again, it goes back to these warning signs. A lot of people have a hard time receiving. They can’t do it, they think they have to be always giving to other people. Again, I can tell you a few of the other signs and symptoms of this, that you need to have that giving and receiving balance. Here’s one in particular that, even I still do it, which is automatically saying yes to people who ask you for something. Even your children, or your spouse. If you see that you’re doing that, and again you have to notice; it takes some self-reflection to do this, if you let people and events pull you away from what you already planned because they’re having a dramatic day, all this drama and trauma, that’s a sign that you need to be giving and receiving more.


One of the most helpful things, I’ve found, is to look at your to-do list every day and every week, and ask yourself, “Where am I on the list?” If you’re anything like me, my to-do list is probably 20 pages long. Then I look at it and I’m not even on the list, and if so I’m at the bottom. The problem with that is, we always task ourselves with too many things to do every day and then we get upset when we don’t do them. If you’re at the bottom of the list, you’re never going to make that time for yourself.


It’s one little step you can do that’s really helpful, is to put right in your calendar, not even your to-do list, on your calendar, “This space, from 3 to 4 o’clock, that’s my time.” Then don’t let other people invade it. It sounds like it’s hard to do, but if somebody says, “Can you do this at 3 o’clock,” you say, “Sorry, I’ve got an appointment.” Yeah, it’s an appointment with yourself, but that’s a good thing. Those are some of the things to look out for.


The being grouchy and the complaining, that’s also on my list. Because I notice it with myself, and especially hard because I work from home, so there’s so many temptations and distractions. The dishes are in the sink, or the blocks are on the floor, or the cat is doing this. You hear yourself complaining and then you realize, “This is because I haven’t taken time for myself.” Yes these things are an irritation, but that’s not really the cause and core of why you’re upset. The reason you’re really upset is because you think that this is getting in the way of you taking time for yourself, when in fact nobody else is going to do it for you. You have to slot that time in, you need to make the effort.


The one other thing, Amy, that’s really important, and it’s one of these myths again, is that we don’t ask for support. That’s another way that we can know that we’re out of balance, we have this misconception that support is a sign of weakness, or if I can’t do it on my own there’s something wrong with me. I don’t know where we picked it up, but it’s so insidious. Asking for support, in my mind, is actually a sign of being strong and wise. Why? Because when you ask for support, you make the best decisions in your life. That means you care about those people around you. You care about your family and those who are affected by your choices.


We have to always remember, and you probably do this with your clients and the people that you support, is that support comes in many forms. It can be physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. Sometimes we’re out of balance because we haven’t looked at all four of those quadrants. In other words, physical could be just getting a massage, or getting some body work, to release the stress. Or mental, stimulating yourself with a book or something, some kind of a class or something, that gets your mind moving and your passions awakened. Spiritual is also a very important component. Each of us has to find that way that we connect with what stirs the passion within us.


Another important thing to remember about support is, it doesn’t have to cost a lot of money. You can also consider trading services with other people, coming up with creative ways to get support.


Amy Medling: I love that, and I think that it’s so important to find that quiet place so that you can determine what kind of support you need, if you’re going 100 miles an hour and never take time to reflect on that. Your little chime app, which if you can think of the name of it, we’ll post it at the end of the podcast.


Patricia Spadaro: There’s actually several of them out there, because when I was researching it, I found quite a few. I looked up mindfulness, a mindfulness clock, that might be the name of it.


Amy Medling: That’s great. I actually use a planner. I think it’s Leonie Dawson, is the woman that puts these planners out. There’s a place to ask yourself, “Am I getting the physical, the mental, the emotional, the spiritual, food that I need on a weekly, daily basis?” You can check in with yourself and have that cue, which is really helpful for me.


Patricia Spadaro: Yeah, I love that.


Amy Medling: Because that’s not something I’m thinking about all the time.


Patricia Spadaro: The thing is, when we get in the middle of the busyness and the challenges, it’s really hard to remember what we should do. Those cues are really important.


Amy Medling: Yeah. I love the idea of swapping services. I actually just kind of swapped services with a friend of mine who is great at gardening, and she is kind of planning out a little garden for me in my back yard. I wanted to kind of clean up this certain area, so I have a nice little fitting area, and I’m helping her out with a cleanse. It’s very doable to swap services, and tap into each other’s gifts. That’s part of that creative process. Sharing each other’s gifts, I think that’s a great idea.


Patricia Spadaro: That’s nice, and I like that you’re doing it with a garden. Because having a place of beauty somewhere that you can go to, in your home or in your environment, that you can retreat to, your little retreat place, even if it’s the corner of a room, or outside, it’s so important. It just taps us back into what’s really true about ourselves.


Amy Medling: Yeah, that’s so true. Think about all the men who have their man caves, and the kids have their …


Patricia Spadaro: Exactly. We’ll have to come out with a good name.


Amy Medling: The kids have their playrooms. Yeah, I think I’ve seen the she-sheds. Have you seen that online? They’re little sheds in the garden for women to go and have their reading time or whatever. We need a place that is cozy and inviting, and free from the kids’ toys or the men’s clutter that we can call our own.


Patricia Spadaro: Yeah, absolutely.


Amy Medling: Then making time to do that. Maybe we could just talk a little bit more about the guilt. How do you get over … That was a real issue for me early on, the guilt of taking time for myself. That was hard for me to do.


Patricia Spadaro: It is hard, and I think wow, it’s so pervasive and so wrapped into the way we’re raised, as women, to be the mothers, to be mothering. I think the only way to free yourself from it is to just keep reminding yourself that it’s not all about somebody else, it’s about you too. It’s very subtle in many ways, because there are a lot of reasons why we sacrifice.


We might call it guilt, but actually it goes a lot deeper. We use the sacrificing as an excuse. Let me explain. For instance, we might feel that we have to give because somebody else will reject us, hence the guilt. They’ll reject us or they won’t approve of us. That’s really a false idea. If someone in your life really loves you and deserves to be in your life, they will be happy to help you get destressed and take time for yourself.


You were saying, your husband was the one that prompted you, right? If that’s not the case with the people in your life, then you need to teach them that you value yourself. Because people do learn from us how to treat us. In other words, we’re modeling the kind of behavior that we will accept. Throwing off the guilt, and throwing off the idea that we can’t give back to ourselves, means we have to change our behavior first, and we’re not going to wait for somebody else to do it.


Another thing that might happen in the dynamic, even in our subconscious, is that we give and we sacrifice as a way to avoid the confrontations that come when we know we’re going to start asserting our right to be on top of our priority list. It’s natural to try and avoid those confrontations, but there’s a price to pay for that. If we are always giving, giving, giving, and pushing, pushing, pushing, to meet other people’s needs, and then we drown out our own needs and desires, we are drowning out that part of ourselves that is the true part of ourselves. Then that’s when we get this depression, this moodiness. We literally lose our soul, we lose our passion for life.


It’s really dangerous. People think about the danger in terms of physical danger, which there is physical danger, to become what I call a give-aholic. It’s just as bad as an alcoholic. You’re giving so much, you’re giving away yourself. To give away your soul, and that part of yourself that has that creative spark, is so destructive and so devastating to our lives.


Amy Medling: Many women that I work with, they’ve been doing this for so long that they’ve lost themself, they’ve lost what their gifts are, what brings them pleasure. That’s huge. They don’t even remember what it was that they enjoyed doing. When you say you need to take some time to honor yourself, and do something that you enjoy, they don’t even know.


Patricia Spadaro: That happened to me when I-


Amy Medling: I guess my question-


Patricia Spadaro: Sorry. It happened to me. I remember very well people saying, “What do you want to do?” I was like, “Wow, I never ask myself that question. I need to think about that. Need to get back in touch with it.”


Amy Medling: How do you? That was my question. How do you recommend women who, they realize that they need to start saying yes to themselves, they realize they need some time, but now what? Now how do I honor myself? What’s going to bring me joy and pleasure, and get me back to give birth to my best self again? I love that idea and concept.


Patricia Spadaro: It’s all about getting in touch with yourself, so if it’s buried … there’s all sorts of ways. I really found that body work actually helps me get back in touch with who I really am, as odd as it might seem, but not really. Your body carries so much tension and stress. When you get a massage, and your muscles are so tight you can’t even feel the therapist pushing on you… it’s layers, you’re protecting yourself. We do that in so many ways, we put up barriers and try to protect ourselves from feeling. I think that the first thing is to allow yourself to feel, not just in body work but also in your daily work. Then again taking that time, so many times a day, to say, “What am I really feeling right now? What do I need?” Just keep prompting yourself, because we’re not used to asking ourselves that.


Amy Medling: I love that. I think that so many women stuff those feelings down with food. Certainly with PCOS there’s that blood sugar dysregulation, and it can cause cravings and that kind of thing. I often ask people, “We have to get in touch with, what are you really craving? Is it indeed food, or is it a hug, or some stimulation?” Going back to, “Do I need something emotionally, physically, spiritually?” I think it’s so important not to stuff those feelings down and feel the emotions.


For somebody who’s afraid of truly sitting and feeling those waves of emotion, do you have any advice for them?


Patricia Spadaro: I think I have a little prompt in my book about that. The thing is, journaling is one thing that really helps, because you’re not just sitting there experiencing it. You’re writing it and you’re getting it out. If it’s really severe, if you have a really severe and hard time with that, I wouldn’t hesitate to think about going to a therapist, or somebody who can help you get in touch with those feelings. But be in a safe place, do some journaling, ask yourself those questions. “What am I feeling?”


One thing that can really help too, to get back in touch with that without being surfeited by the emotions, is to think about your childhood. What was it in childhood that really made you happy? When were you the most joyful? Think about, what were you doing, who were you with, how were you feeling? I find that going back to that childhood state, when we were so free of some of the encumbrances, hopefully, that we have as an adult, can really get us back in touch with that inner child, so to speak.


Actually that’s one of the things that was recommended to me a long time ago, and I still do it. I have a picture of myself when I was, probably, five years old. Just so innocent, so sweet, so happy. I put it right next to my computer, and it reminds me when I get so overwhelmed with things. I look at that and it just reminds me, “This is who you really are. Deep down inside you have this love for …” Whatever it is that you have a love for. It really helps you recapture that part of yourself that can be free and fly.


That’s some of the things that I would suggest. The other thing that will help you get through the difficulty of getting in touch with that, and people don’t often think of this, is look who you’re spending time with. Make sure that you are with people that will allow you to express, that are positive, supportive. If you find yourself with friends who are critical of you all the time, or going behind your back doing things, you don’t have to be their friend. Just because you’ve known them all your life. If a family member, in an extended family that you have to see so many times a year, just is such a downer, just spend less time with them. If you have to be at events with them, don’t spend a lot of time with them. If it gets really down to it, and they want to know why, you just have to say, “I have to be honest with you. I don’t feel safe, and I don’t feel light and uplifted when I’m around you.” Really take a look, and choose to be around supportive, positive people.


Amy Medling: That’s so important. Somebody said, and I don’t know who I’m quoting, but you really are the sum of the five people that you hang out with the most. That is so important, that’s part of honoring yourself, is loving yourself enough, realizing that you’re worth spending time with people who enhance your life, rather than drain it.


Patricia Spadaro: It can be toxic. People can really be toxic. I found in my own life, I had a job where there was a lot of backbiting and toxicity. As soon as I started really looking at myself and saying, “You deserve better, why do you need to put up with this,” Even though I loved the job itself, I found, within a short amount of time, I was free of it. I was free of the job. It looked like it was a horrible thing that happened and all that, but it wasn’t. Because that kind of environment, to get up every morning and have a stomach ache to start with, because you dread what you’re going to greet at work or whatever, it’s simply not worth it. Sometimes it takes facing the fact that, we have a choice in our environment. We have a choice in who we associate with. We can start opening ourselves up to other ways of being, and who we’re with.


Another thing that I do from time to time that’s really helped me is to write a letter, to God or the universe or whatever name you feel most comfortable with, and pour out your heart and say, “I want to be the best I can be. I’m stuck here. I’m opening myself up to hearing what signs and signals you want to send me, and really giving a heartfelt thing.” You can take the letter, you can roll it up, you can burn it in a safe place and make a little ritual out of it. It’s the intention basically, it’s setting the intention that you’re going to change the direction, that you want to change the direction. You might not know how to at that moment, but setting the intention always opens the door.


Amy Medling: That’s really so poignant. I’ve experienced that in my life for sure. I call it delving into the realm of possibility. When you start thinking that there may be another opportunity, choice, for you, and you start pondering on that, and kind of dive into that place of possibility, doors do open up for you. It’s almost magical.


Patricia Spadaro: It can be, and we shouldn’t be afraid of it. I think that fear really holds us back in so many cases. We don’t know what’s going to come, fear of the unknown. It’s just the biggest downer. To open your heart to yourself, to say, “I deserve to bring forth my gifts,” it can be very liberating. It takes time. Again, you need to separate yourself out and take the time to do it. That’s one of the things …


Kahlil Gibran wrote this beautiful book called The Prophet, and there’s a section on relationships, and he says in there, “Let there be spaces in your togetherness.” I think it’s so important, because we tend to think that we have to be around our family all the time, or around our children, that that shows that we’re caring. The thing is, we also need to have that space where we can explore ourselves, so that we can bring back what we discover and what we cultivate, back into our relationships.


Amy Medling: Yeah, that is so important, especially as your children begin to grow, or as you go through the different stages in life. I see women that I know that, now their kids don’t need them as much, and they’ve sort of lost their sense of identity. Because they haven’t spent time really nurturing what they need and what they want, so it’s a really important process in each stage of life.


Patricia Spadaro: Exactly, that is so true. There might be times when you’re full-on, you need to give your attention, but then to get into that habit, and not allow ourselves to cultivate our personal strengths, and to figure out ways that we can grow personally, that will definitely shut you down and shut down your soul. It’s all about developing this healthy habit of honoring yourself, and it’s not too late to start. You can start any time, doing any one of these things we talked about today, and asking yourself, “What can I do?” Again, that question, “What can I do to honor myself right now, so I can give my best gift to the world?”


Amy Medling: I just have to tell listeners that you have some really wonderful suggestions on how to do that in your book. We just sort of scratched the surface on this podcast today. You have your seven steps for staying in balance, which are fantastic, and learning whether you’re off-balance, and really how to set boundaries, and learning how to … I love the chapters about honoring endings, which I think is-


Patricia Spadaro: Yeah, that’s actually the most favorite part of the book for me, because I think we have a hard time doing that. The book has a lot of practical things in it , because nobody needs to hear, we all know, we’ve been told so many times, “Make sure you give back to yourself,” but we don’t do it. Why don’t we do it? How can we establish that healthy habit of honoring ourselves?


Amy Medling: Yeah, and it’s really beautifully written too. It was a joy to read.


Patricia Spadaro: Thank you, Amy.


Amy Medling: I’m just so pleased that you said yes, and didn’t say no …


Patricia Spadaro: I am too.


Amy Medling: To talk today. I just want listeners to know that Honor Yourself is available in stores nationwide, and I will have a link to Amazon as well so that you can grab a copy. You will not be disappointed. To learn more about Patricia and her work, and you can get more tips and inspiration, you can visit her at, and I will place the link there as well. Thank you again for joining us today in sharing your wisdom with us.


Patricia Spadaro: You’re welcome Amy, and I hope it’s been really helpful.


Amy Medling: Yes, it really has. I hope that everybody enjoyed today’s podcast, and I look forward to being with you again next time. Thank you, bye-bye.


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