Tap Yourself Happy: a Super-Effective Self-Care Technique [Podcast] - PCOS Diva
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Tap Yourself Happy: a Super-Effective Self-Care Technique [Podcast]

PCOS Podcast 44 Jessica Ortner“You can’t hate yourself happy, and you can’t criticize yourself thin, and you can’t shame yourself healthy.

That’s the strategy that so many women are using and it’s important to address the emotional side of weight loss and to take a different approach.” –Jessica Ortner

Who am I to take care of myself when so many people depend on me? I hear this all the time.  The fact is that self-care is not a reward. It is an essential ingredient to living, to surviving, to having a healthy life. “Tapping” is a technique I use myself of literally tapping with your fingers on acupressure points in order to relax your body and/or change your mindset. It is useful for alleviating cravings, stress, anxiety, and much more.

Tapping expert Jessica Ortner stopped by the podcast to explain how tapping can help a woman understand the motivation behind certain behaviors and consciously reprogram her response. Listen as we discuss:

  • The practice of tapping and how to begin
  • The critical importance of self-care and pleasure
  • Why we feel that we need to practice diet and deprivation
  • The reason behind the clenching feeling in our stomach, back pain, or insomnia

Please listen and learn to love yourself and your body through tapping.

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A full transcript follows.




Jessica Ortner is the NY Times bestselling author of “The Tapping Solution for Weight Loss and Body Confidence” and producer of The Tapping Solution, the breakthrough documentary film on EFT tapping. She has led more than 5,000 women through her revolutionary Weight Loss and Body Confidence online program, and she is also the host of The Tapping World Summit, an annual online event that has attracted more than 1,000,000 attendees from around the world. She has been interviewing experts in the personal development field since 2007, having conducted over more than 200 broadcast interviews to date. Follow Jessica on Twitter @JessicaOrtner and on Facebook at www.facebook.com/followingJessicaOrtner. – See more at: http://www.thetappingsolution.com/jessica-ortner/#sthash.Ucvq8V4w.dpuf

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Full Transcript: 

Amy: Hello and welcome to another edition of the PCOS Diva Podcast. This is your host Amy Medling I’m a certified health coach and the founder of the PCOS Diva. Today we’re going to be talking about one of the tools in my PCOS Diva lifestyle toolkit. That’s emotional freedom technique or tapping. I’ve asked a tapping expert, Jessica Ortner, to join us today. She’s a stress reduction and weight loss coach and a feel good activist. She’s been New York Times Bestselling author of The Tapping Solution for Weight Loss and Body Confidence and The producer of the Tapping Solution. It’s a breakthrough documentary film on EFT Tapping. Welcome, Jessica, to the PCOS Diva Podcast.


Jessica: Thank you so much for having me.


Amy: I love the byline of your book. It’s The Tapping Solution for Weight Loss and Body Confidence, and it’s a woman’s guide to stressing less, weighing less and loving more. Isn’t that what we could all use?


Jessica: Yes, exactly. Yet, for that line, for many people they’ve never thought of it like that because we live in a society that’s taught us that in order to lose weight that we need to push and we need to punish ourselves. One thing I often say in the book is that, you can’t hate yourself happy and you can’t criticize yourself thin, and you can’t shame yourself healthy. That’s the strategy that so many women are using and it’s important to really address the emotional side of weight loss and to take a different approach.


Amy: Yeah, I think we really need to change the paradigm and so many women with PCOS can really relate. I say this all the time, they go to the doctor and they’re told they have to lose weight in order to get pregnant or for their PCOS symptoms to subside, but they’re not really given much direction. They start the whole cycle of what I call diet deprivation and denial and they try to sweat out the PCOS at the gym and this body punishment philosophy.


Jessica: Right.


Amy: That just doesn’t really work. It’s not sustainable and who wants to live that way?


Jessica: Right. I think it’s important to have a sense of self-compassion. Often compassion is easier when we begin to have a better understanding of why we’re acting in a certain way. When we stop looking at ourselves as doing something wrong, but we understand our behaviors. There’s two main reasons that we get into that cycle of feeling that we need to do the diet and deprivation and that kind of fighting mentality. The first one is the obvious one which is just the culture that we live in. We’re surrounded by shows like The Biggest Loser or just that mentality of you have to suffer in order to get results. I’ll share in a moment as to why that doesn’t work and there’s actually been a huge article in the New York Times about how that doesn’t work and how many of those people have just gained the weight again.


The other thing that’s important to understand is that when you get any kind of diagnosis or you get PCOS or the doctor says you have to lose weight or else, in order to get pregnant, when we have that moment, there is an incredible amount of fear. When we are overwhelmed by fear, there’s very interesting things that happen in the body. One of the first things that happens is actually to understand why this happens let’s rewind a bit to our ancestors. When they were out in the woods and people might have heard this before, but our ancestors, when they were off hunting and gathering, when there was a warning sign, a noise, something off, their whole body became really tense, and they got into that fight or flight mode. Now you hear this fight or flight but there’s also a third response which is freeze.


The point is that our body has a very physical response to danger. When we get a PCOS diagnosis or we get some news from our doctor, our body begins to react the same way it would react for our ancestors who were in danger. The difference is when you’re in the doctor’s office or you hear some news or you’re just Googling something and you’re leaning something that is frightening you, you don’t literally have to fight anything off and you don’t have to run. Yet your body is in that fight or flight mode which has that over-production of cortisol, your adrenaline peaks, the blood rushes out of your brain, the excess blood rushes out of your brain into your arms and your legs into your extremities so that you can fight or you can flee. When that happens it’s very hard to think clearly, it’s very hard to be innovative, it’s very hard to do what you know.


I have a lot of people that say, “Oh I’m learning about self-care but I’m just not doing it.” When we are scared, it’s important to understand that we are not our most resourceful and brilliant selves because our body is reacting in this ancient way. Now when we have that understanding as to what’s happening when we are under fear, once we have that understanding it’s easier to be more compassionate towards ourselves instead of judging that fear or that panic. Beginning to understand why we’re having it in the first place, our body is just trying to help us, but it’s acting in this old way. What we need to do now is to teach our body that even when faced with a challenge that it is safe to begin to relax because it is through relaxation which we talk about so much that our body begins to heal and regenerate and we begin to have a better relationship and we’re able to support our body better.


Amy: That is so true. I think you’re right. The awareness part of it is so key. Listeners, definitely pay attention to that fear response next time you experience it and see if you can use something like tapping to illicit more of a relaxation response. Jessica for those who have never heard of tapping or emotional freedom technique, can you give us a quick overview? Then maybe you can share your story. How did you discover it? How has it helped you in your journey?


Jessica: Absolutely. Tapping, it’s not tap dancing, which a lot of people think. It’s literally using your fingers to tap on acupressure points to help relieve stress. If we look back and we go back to that example of our ancestors that had that fight or flight response, when we are in that moment and we are feeling that stress and that panic about what the doctor just said, or the phone call we just got, or what we just read online, when we begin to have that panic and that stress, the truth is that we’re not experiencing that stress just in our head. It’s not a thought that just lives in our head and we have an emotion in our head. We feel it with our entire body.


We might begin to read about the power of positive thinking, which I do believe in. We might be able to read about what we should do, how we should think, but when we are in that state of panic, our body is in that state and it’s so hard for us to think our way out of it. That is often causes insomnia. Staying up at night thinking and thinking and thinking and trying to think of a better thought or trying to not think, but it’s so hard because we have that clenching, that feeling in our stomach, or maybe it even shows up as a pain our back. We have these physical reactions to stress.


What we’re doing with tapping is we are encompassing the body as well as the mind. When you have a thought, it creates that tension, that stress in your whole body. What you want to do with tapping, is you think about, you actually focus on what is really bothering you as you begin to tap on these acupressure points. Now these acupressure points are points that many of you may already be using and you don’t even realize. For example, one point is the eyebrow point where the hair of your eyebrows begin. Sometimes you see people with their whole hand clenching that top, that bridge of their nose. Another acupressure point is on your chest and you see people comforting themselves by putting their hand over their chest. These are points that we intuitively know relax us.


When we begin to think of a stressful thought, while we stimulate these relaxing points, it sends a calming signal from our body to our brain letting our brain know that even with these thoughts, even with these concerns, it’s safe to relax. When you’re able to relax your body, it is so much easier to think an empowering thought. It’s so much easier to find a solution to get an idea.


As you know with any type of diagnosis we have to become advocates to our own heath. If we are so overwhelmed with stress, anxiety and fear about the diagnosis, it’s so hard to find what is going to work for us because every individual is different. It’s a healing adventure that we’re on. As we’re on this adventure the more we’re able to relax and to take a deep breath, the easier it is for us to discover a path that works for us.


Again, just to recap, tapping is a way technique where you tap on acupressure points in order to relax your body so you can still think of those thoughts without having the physical anxiety and that is when you’re in control again.


Amy: For those of you who are wondering what the points are, I will attach an image below the podcast as well as a link to an article that I wrote that shows all of the tapping points and takes you through a tapping session. I think what I really love about Jessica’s book is she has these really powerful scripts, I guess you would call them, for a tapping session, especially around emotional eating and body confidence and self-love. Maybe you could just explain why the importance of this script in that internal dialog that goes along with the tapping of the acupressure points?


Jessica: Absolutely. I can answer that question and also the one that you asked before as to why this is something that I became involved in. I learned about tapping and it didn’t take me long just to have an experience and realize it works. For those who are listening, if your skeptical, I think that’s very healthy, and my piece of advice is just to give it a try because it is very simple. The challenge with it being so simple is people think that simple things aren’t as powerful and it’s actually the simple things that we do that make the biggest difference in our lives.


I began to use tapping and I saw very quickly that it was able to help me with stress, it helped me with … I’d had a cold because I had a lot of stress that I ended up getting sick. I tapped and I felt the cold symptoms go away and it was incredible. Then I forgot, then I just stopped using it because I just learned it, thought it was cool, had great results, went on with my life. Then I went through a break up and it made a massive difference with the whole experience. I began to use it on many things and teamed up with my brother and we made a documentary about it.


I was using tapping on many things but I wasn’t using it on the one thing that felt like my deepest, darkest secret and that was the massive, massive struggle that I had with my body image and with my weight. Ever since I was fifteen I would fluctuate drastically. It would go from, I would gain a lot of weight and then I would do a diet, and regardless of what diet you use, most diets they work for like a week. They do. You deprive yourself, you eat less, you do whatever they say and you tend to lose a few pounds, but what I was doing I was never able to be consistent with it because it felt so hard. It felt like I just didn’t have the will power and so I really felt like something in me was broken. I felt like it was unfair that losing weight and being at a healthy weight was just easier for everybody else and for me it was going to be a lifetime struggle.


I also tied my weight, I tied it very equivocally to my worth. I had a mentor once where I actually went to volunteer at a health event about nutrition, and this mentor of mine, who I really respected and I was only maybe twenty or twenty-one at the time, told me, he said, “You know you’re fat and no one is going to listen to what you have to say until you lose weight.” It was one of the most painful things I heard. One of the reasons it was so painful was it was really what I had been telling myself. It was my mantra and here, the words I was telling myself were being reflected back by someone else that I respected. That just fueled me to hate myself more and to think, “Well I just need to push more. I am not allowed to be happy until I lose weight. I’m not allowed to feel good about myself until I lose weight. I’m not allowed to date. I’m not allowed stand on stage. I’m not allowed to have something important to say until I lose weight.”


The emotions around this experience and my self-worth were so tied in to that number on that scale. That struggle and that fighting, it never worked. It was really, purely out of exhaustion, just absolute exhaustion that I came to the realization, “Well I’m using this thing I’m tapping on everything except this. I talk about self-love, and I talk about the power of stress relief and I’m filming a documentary about it but I’m not using it on this,” because I was so brain washed to believe the only way I would get results was by hating myself.


I began to look at the beliefs and the patterns and the events that I saw in my own life. I began to look at my weight as a metaphor. I began to look at it as an emotional experience, looking at what are the emotions that are leading me to overeat. The thing about emotions and why it’s so important to deal with stress and emotions is that it impacts two different things. The first thing is that it impacts our behaviors. When we are stressed, food becomes our anti-anxiety medication. So often we are not having any pleasure or any self-care in our lives and the only time we feel good is when we’re indulging in some chocolate. All of the sudden we get on a diet and we deprive ourselves of the only thing that we have used to feel good about ourselves. That lack of pleasure leads us to sabotage our own success. It’s important to look at the emotions and also how we take care of ourselves when it comes to our behaviors.


The other thing, which I know you talk about Amy, is the importance of looking at the emotions when it comes to our hormones. I was trying to panic my way into weight loss and that panic was creating an over-production of cortisol which is directly linked to belly fat, and to weight gain. Here I was thinking that the panic and the anxiety would lead me to change, but that panic and anxiety was the very thing that was keeping me stuck in place. I had to make a decision. I had to realize number one, the pattern of dieting and deprivation was not working. I was doing the same thing and expecting a different result, which Einstein calls insanity. I had to first acknowledge that I was acting like a crazy person with doing this thing over and over again.


The second thing I had to do is say, “All right, I’m ready to take the emotional journey. I’m ready to take a closer look at my emotions around food and my emotions around my self-image.” I had to begin to realize that weight loss doesn’t lead to body confidence. When I could first feel confident in my body, when I could first value my body exactly where it was, it was easier to take care of myself and then lose weight. You know Amy, it’s so hard to take care of something that you hate, but it’s very easy to take care of something that you value.


When we begin to deal with stress and emotions we have around our body and we begin to see its value, even with the extra weight, even with the PCOS, when we see the value in our body before we even experience any results, when we can appreciate our body where we are, it is so much easier to get those results. That’s when the results actually come. It’s when it actually happens. That’s the biggest shift that I hope people make is to realize it’s not about depriving yourself until you get the results. It’s about feeling good in your body. It’s about valuing yourself and then the results come.


Amy: Yeah. It can be such a leap of faith because so many women feel so betrayed by their bodies, I’m sure that are listening to this call today. How do you take that leap of faith and how can tapping help?


Jessica: Well this is why tapping is so amazing because we have a lot of conversations about the importance of self-care and there are so many things that we know but practicing them can seem so difficult. We know we should think a certain way, or we know we should feel a certain way but actually having that experience is very difficult. One of the reasons it’s difficult is because at first we don’t allow ourselves to actually acknowledge how we feel. Now this is a slippery slope. This is tricky because we hear about the importance of feeling good. We hear about how stress and negative emotions impact our hormones and impact our entire health. The challenge is we hear this information and we begin to fear stress. What happens? We suddenly become overwhelmed and stressed and on top of feeling overwhelmed and stressed, we’re now upset at ourselves. We’re angry that we’re overwhelmed and stressed because we know it’s not going to help us. We begin to pile on these emotions and we shame ourselves for feeling a certain way. We feel disappointed in ourselves because we can’t just be happy because we’re struggling.


One of the first steps with tapping is acknowledging, “Hey, this is hard. This is a lot for one person. I am struggling. I am upset. This feels incredibly unfair.” Now the difference is that when we say those words without something like tapping, we get to the point where we’re just indulging in them. We’re just swimming in them, we’re not getting anywhere, but when we’re able to have an honest conversation and go, “You know what? This is really hard. I’m really struggling. I’m really hurt. I’m really disappointed.” When we can have those moments of saying that and tapping on these acupressure points, it’s such a relief.


Now one of the things that I haven’t talked about yet is how to begin tapping. There is something called a set up phrase. The set up statement which is literally setting yourself up for this process of tapping. The set up statement is “Even though,” and you name the symptoms and you name the challenge or you name the emotions, “Even though I am so upset, I accept myself and how I feel.” For many people this is just so hard to grasp because why would you want to accept something that you so desperately want to change.


Well, we know from experience that fighting these feelings isn’t working. When you give yourself a moment to just accept where you are, accept how you feel, it is liberating. It is freeing to be able to go, “Yes, this is how I feel and even though I have these symptoms and even though this is hard and even though I am crying and I’m upset, I accept that this is where I am. I allow myself to have this experience, to process these emotions.” Emotion, energy in motion, these emotions get stuck in us when we don’t give them that motion, we don’t give them that freedom to be expressed and relieved. When we just continuously stuff those feelings down saying that we shouldn’t think that way, we shouldn’t feel that way, that we should get our act together, when we allow ourselves to just feel that feeling, accept where we are, it is again, incredibly liberating.


Tapping makes the process gentle. It makes it easy because as we’re expressing how we feel we are allowing our entire body to relax and it’s easier to process these feelings. When people follow along with the tapping script and they go to the website you mentioned, when you give yourself that experience to just start where you are and then gently move towards where you want to be, it’s really incredible how easy it is. It’s a very intuitive process as well, so for those who wonder, “I don’t know if I’m doing it right.” It’s not about doing it right. It’s about giving yourself that experience so just jump in and give it a try and experiment with it.


Amy: I think it takes the fear really feeling those feelings, it eases the fear. So many women that I’ve worked with, and myself included, we stuff our feelings down with food because we’re afraid of the intensity of those feelings to let them out. I think that tapping really gives you a vehicle to let them out in a way that isn’t as painful as you think it may be.


Jessica: Yes. Yeah. Exactly. When it comes to food, one of my advices is, say … I’ll do a little challenge for those who are listening. Oftentimes, when you hear anyone talk about weight loss they give you a challenge of, “For the next thirty days cut out this certain food.” I’m not going to tell you to cut anything out. What I’m asking you is before you begin to eat, before you take a bit of something, take a deep breath and ask yourself, “How do I feel?” A lot of times our eating our emotions around eating are so unconscious we don’t really realize.


For example, I was speaking in London … This is a story I share often because I think it’s a great example of how tapping can work for cravings and emotional eating. I had these three people come on stage and we began to tap while focusing on the physical cravings. Tapping works very well with physical cravings. When we did a tapping round, we just stated this feeling, just stated the craving, “I really want this chocolate. I really want this chocolate.” We began to express how we feel as we tap. What we did actually … I’ll back up for one moment. Before we begin to tap, we measured, on a scale of zero to ten how strong the craving, that desire to eat that food.


For the women that came up, everybody was at a ten. After doing some tapping on the basic symptoms, one woman, she didn’t have the craving anymore. She felt calm emotionally and realized that the craving had disappeared. For two of the other women, one woman had an a-ha moment and she realized that her grandmother used to sneak her chocolate and that every time she just needed some extra love, anytime she just wanted to connect with her grandmother, she would reach for that chocolate. Through tapping she was able to realize, first of all, it’s not that I’m powerless around chocolate. It’s not that I have these intense craving for chocolate. I’m having this intense craving for love, for just a moment of feeling connected to my grandmother, feeling special.


When she was able to make that connection and to tap on this belief that that’s the only way she could feel that way, she began to come up with all these different ideas of how she could just feel that love. It was as simple as putting her hands up over her heart and taking a deep breath and just remembering that love and how special she felt around her grandmother. Having moments of allowing herself to feel those feelings were really important for her well-being. Once she was able to do that, the chocolate craving disappeared.


Now what was interesting with the third woman, as we were focused on each woman, everyone in the audience was tapping. Everybody was tapping and following along. I asked the third woman, “Well what’s your experience? On a scale of zero to ten, has the craving completely gone away?” She said, “It’s at a zero.” I was like “Wow. Great. Success. Whew.” I was nervous in front of all these people. Then she said, “But I still want it.” I was like, “Oh that’s interesting. The physical craving for this food is gone?” She said, “Absolutely. There’s no craving.” I said, “Okay, but you still want it?” She said, “Yes.” I asked her, “Is there a certain time of the day when you really want that food? When you really want that chocolate?” That’s the food that we were focusing on. She said, “Yes, right after work.” Then I asked her, “What would happen if you weren’t allowed to have that chocolate after work?” She said, “There would be no way to let go of the stress from work. There’d be no way to relax.”


Even though the physical craving was gone, that chocolate was a first a little reward for surviving the work day and a way to let the work day go. What we began to do is to not tap on the food or the craving or her weight or anything of that. We began to tap on her emotions around work. When she was able to focus on work and also the belief that the only way to let go of the stress of the day was chocolate, not only did her physical craving go down but the desire left her because she was able to find a way to relax.


I mention this because as we go through this journey and we want to lose weight, sometimes we get so focused on the weight itself without tapping on the craving or just focusing on the physical weight, but oftentimes that weight is just a symptom, that behavior is a symptom of something else. Maybe what you need to focus on when it comes to stress management has nothing to do with PCOS, has nothing to do with weight. Maybe it has everything to do with your work, or a relationship in your life. When you begin to relieve that stress, that’s when the other things begin to fall into place and it becomes so much easier to get those results.


Amy: I think that a great question, something that I ask myself when I’m having cravings is “What am I really hungry for?”


Jessica: Great question.


Amy: I can usually tie it to I’m in need of some type of self-care and pleasure. I know that you end your book on that note, and the importance of self-care and pleasure and that’s something that I really try to hit home with PCOS Diva, that a diva needs to practice self-care but sometimes it’s really hard to put yourself first. Especially when you’re in that place of self-punishment. How can you, through your work and your experience working with women, how do you move women to that place of realizing self-care and pleasure is just paramount?


Jessica: I think, the first step is to address the blocks we have towards it because we done a lot of research. There is no denying that feeling is good for your body, that feeling good is good medicine. If you want the best vitamin, the best hormone balancer, the best thing for your body is to feel good. We know that so why is it something that we struggle with? That question, that answer is different for everyone. Something that comes up a lot is guilt. That feeling of well who am I to take care of myself when so many people depend on me. Especially women. Many of us fall into that care giving position and we think that in order to be valued as a human being we need to be able to give.


This is generational. This is something I’m speaking to because I know your audience, it’s an audience of women. This is not something that we just picked up. This is not just something that we, we’re born with. Maybe that’s not the right way to say it because we did pick it up. It’s not something that we just invented in our own mind. It’s something that we’re surrounded with. We come from … If you think about your mother and your grandmother, so much of their value was based on taking care of other people. A lot of us women, we think that the more selfless we are, the better person we are. We look at self-care as being selfish, as being something that we don’t deserve, or being something that we need to earn. “I will feel good once,” and then we list all these things, “I’ll feel good once my spouse is happy, once this project at work is done, once my house is paid off.”


We deny ourselves self-care and pleasure because we think that it needs to be a reward. It’s not a reward. Self-care and pleasure is not something that you earn. It is an essential ingredient to living, to surviving, to having a healthy life. A great place to start is, what’s the hesitation when you begin to take care of yourself? What’s that little voice that’s telling you, “No, you shouldn’t be doing this. You don’t deserve this. You have a million other things to do.” Notice that voice and begin to just simply tap on those acupressure points as you give that little voice in your head an opportunity to vent.


We sometimes think that in order to get rid of the voice we have to ignore it. No, no, no. When we really give ourselves a chance to listen to that voice and tap, we begin to realize how silly and ridiculous that voice is. It doesn’t control us; it doesn’t have the same power over us when we begin to shine that light. The problem is when we notice it, we kind of shove it in the darkness. That’s where it really begins to grow. When it comes to self-care, just notice that little reluctant voice and just give yourself a moment to acknowledge that as you begin to tap.


Amy: That’s great, great advice. Gosh, there’s just so many nuggets of wisdom in your book. I wish we had time to talk about all of the different aspects of helping you to learn to love yourself and your body through tapping. Your book is something that I will share with all my one-on-one coaching clients when I was in private practice doing coaching. It’s really life-changing and I really recommend everybody that’s listening to pick up a copy because we are just barely scratched the surface. I think just the scripts that you give alone are just so valuable. Thank you for writing and writing this book and sharing your experience and wisdom with us all, Jessica.


Jessica: Thank you for kind words. It’s so sweet. I put a lot of work and a lot heart into this book, so that means a lot to me. People can pick it up, it’s really anywhere, most Barnes and Nobles and you can also get it on Amazon. I also have a seven-week weight loss and body confidence program. I was telling you, we were chatting a little bit before we started, I believe in the power of a community. I think what you’re doing is so important because when we’re struggling with something whether it’s weight, or whether it’s with a diagnosis, we often feel really isolated. We feel very alone; we feel that it’s very unfair that we’re suffering with this.


One of the most important parts of healing and being consistent in this healing journey is finding a community that supports us. I tried to create that community with the seven-week program. I just think what you’re doing is so important and I just want say thank you to you for creating this amazing community because I know what you’re addressing is something that’s so common and not many people are talking about it. When more people talk about it, that’s really when the healing begins.


Amy: Oh well thanks. It’s really a labor of love. I think people aren’t talking about it in the framework of a holistic approach. Certainly adding the pharmaceutical drugs and kill yourself at the gym, and go on a diet, but PCOS can absolutely be managed and so much healing can happen when we really, what we talked about today, take a look at your emotions and experiencing those emotions and taking time for self-care and learning to love yourself where you are. Your book really encompasses all of those messages.


Please listeners, take a look at the book and take a look at Jessica’s site and her program. We’re going to have a link to it at the end of this podcast. Also, Jessica you also have a podcast so we will post that as well.


Jessica: I do, yes. I don’t only talk about tapping. I actually, it’s called Adventures in Happiness and it’s really that. It’s an adventure in productivity and wellness and spirituality. I interview a lot of really fun guests, and it’s very joyous and fun. If people want to listen to it, they can find it on iTunes. You can Google my name, Jessica Ortner and Adventures in Happiness.


Amy: I can’t wait to add that to my podcast feed.


Jessica: Thank you.


Amy: It sounds fantastic. Well thanks Jessica for joining us today and thank you everyone for listening. I look forward to being with you again soon. Bye-bye.


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